Curse

chowmein69 · Oct 25, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

i dont pug...

arcady · Oct 25, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

To that I say: To each his own. I have *much* more fun than having to play henchies than with a person who doesn't know what they're doing at all.

If I only played to win and master the game, I'd play Zelda or Oblivion or some other offline game.

I enjoy the game and the community, not the victory.

Bryant Again · Oct 25, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

If I only played to win and master the game, I'd play Zelda or Oblivion or some other offline game.

I enjoy the game and the community, not the victory.

That's good, you play how you want, enjoy what you want. The same can be said for me. Saying, however, "this is what enjoyment is" is not too good. If it was unintentional to say such, then np.

Dallcingi · Oct 25, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I PUG HA lol

Thunder79 · Oct 25, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

People still PUG...it's mostly people who don't have heroes (only really seen in prophecies and factions), people who are solo and can't build a complete Hero group due to the asinine limitation (henchmen aren't equipped for high end areas so to complete those areas they are forced to group), and people who want to play with others but haven't found a good guild or don't have friends to play with.

If I had a choice of all the options: play with guildies, play with a pug (which usually have the traits described in the quote below), play with h/h...I would no doubt play with guildies...but I don't have that option...and given the remaining options I pick H/H over PUGs whenever I can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang_Whirlwind

Thank you Anet for not forcing me to play with people with attitude problems, short attention spans and no patience! (unless I actually feel like doing so!)

yeah too bad that doesn't apply to solo players...we're still forced to group with those people in certain areas.

People should have the option to play how they want...they should not be forced into PUGs in ANY areas...even elite areas. They built this game to cater towards solo players...they need to finish the damn job. People who want to PUG can PUG all they want...just don't force people who don't want to PUG to party with the idiots that make up the majority of PUGs.

Lord Sojar · Oct 25, 2007, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I tried having an open mind about Pugging, but my brains kept falling out...

Neo Nugget · Oct 25, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I usually have to go afk for a few min at a time.....pugs don't like it when i do that.

But Vekk, Ogden and Pyre are cool and let me

Dirty Savage · Oct 25, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Believe me, I would love to play with actual human players but I just don't have the time to sit there whilst the team desperately spams for a monk or a MM or what have you. I have no time for people who die once and suddenly decide that victory in the mission/quest is no longer attainable and promptly leave. Heroes/henchmen don't give a rat's ass if I roll a skill bar that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, nor do they care if I need to leave for 5 minutes to go make a sandwich.

So no, I don't PUG.

nugzta · Oct 25, 2007, 04:17 AM // 04:17

IMO PuG should die because most the time they simply dont reflect any teamwork which this game is based on. Encourage people to join the right guilds for those who care about social interaction. For those who dont they can have their 7 heroes and henchies.

pumpkin pie · Oct 25, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

i just did several hours ago, was trying to hard mode gates of kryta, and theres a level 9 players, who has invited a level 16 a level 12 et ceteras, I thought that it wouldn't take long to do, so why not help.

long story short 3 players remains at the end, one left, one die constantly, one left after the bonus are acquired. so why do I pug-ged? for the fun of it and when I feel like it and notforceduponwithanoheroeshenchiesweekend.

Just for info:
good players pug too, i met a player who obviously can do HM dungeons alone after I did the run with them, they was searching for party for a long time in town "party search for flame temple (i think), any profession" the way they was advertising seem to me that they didn't know what build to use for that area, so i thought I help. Boy, was I wrong! lol they practically kill all the mobs alone with the 3 heroes he took along, I only had to pick up my drops and occasionally help cast ss ... and I got my Murakai's Blade then.

darkknightkain · Oct 25, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Pug? The age of me pugging ended when Nightfall introduced GRIND.

Countless times got kicked only because I haven't grinded as much of those lightbringer points as the next person.

Heroes/Henchmen, they are just about the only thing left in GW.

Wretchman Drake · Oct 25, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Sorry but this sounds like the rant of someone who lacked the ability to come up with synergetic builds as opposed to any sort of elitism on anyone's part. I hate it for you but if you have a curse necro build that uses Depravity or or lingering curse as an elite then yeah I'm kicking you out of my group because you won't add damage or wide range party support which is what PvE is all about. The only factors for successful PvE is having enough damage to kill fast and enough support to keep enemy damage low. If you meet those two requirements then you win. It is as simple as that. If you want to try zany builds either play solo or play RA.

At this point the community as a whole has matured enough that if you do PUG then odds are you have at least one knowledgeable player in your group and any knowledgeable player can look at a build and tell if it is crap or not. that being said I do PUG but I'm not about to waste the limited time I have each day to play on a group full of incompetence. I play to win and at this point in the game I don't think it is too much to ask for people to come up with builds that actually work.

Not all successful builds have to be cookie cutter builds but there are a few skills that are just generally accepted as being more useful either for support or damage. This does not constitute elitism. What it does constitute is people having the rather common ability to read a skill description and do math. If the damage or healing numbers are bigger and the penalties do not offset the gain from the skill then they tend to make the smart choice and use that skill. This game has a large but limited skillset. That means that inevitably people will find the skills that do the most damage with the least penalty and they will make builds around those skills. There are simply some skills in game that complement these skills and thus are cookie cutter builds born. These builds work. That is simple fact. People like to win. That is also simple fact.

Your question/rant is baseless since the very nature of the game system encourages the players to discriminate between certain skills for PvE and PvP play. If you want to run some poorly conceived build then go for it but you have to realize no one wants to waste time on your experiment when they have their own characters to deal with. The way you make it sound it is impossible to get a group these days. That's not true. I PUG'd most of GWEN. The problem is you are unwilling to compromise to make a team dynamic work and instead seem to want everyone to adapt to you. You can't tell me that in WoW you don't have some goober before the raid telling everyone what to bring along. I've seen the video, heard the audio from Vent and Teamspeak. It happens there too and if you can't bring the right buffs, DOTs, or damage spells then you get kicked out of the raid group.

I got a 70 mage on Burning Legion in WoW, and my PUGS are actually smart... I just get the classes I want for the lvl range and if their gear isn't laughable it's safe to assume they aren't stupid.

But in GW, yes I can see the point of view from everyone. Most PUGS are just full of idiots bringing Mending and Heal Other, maybe Flare. If only there was a way to educate 90% of the game population on how complex builds can run...

P.S.

Heroic Mode (WoW) notice: http://cyndre.blogspot.com/2007/03/h...-dungeons.html
Hard Mode (GW) notice: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10133163

Gaile released info about Hard Mode almost a month AFTER Heroic Mode was mentioned. Not to mention GW now has report feature, deserter (punish rage quiters), REPUTATION with races (wtf...), dances to say the least, KILROY... Sorry, I couldn't help it. I know WoW isn't 100% original, but at least it doesn't blatantly steal other game's functionalities to the very detail. Not to mention GW also bases ALOT of its material off many other things... (see guild wiki trivias)

blue.rellik · Oct 25, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I try to give PUGing a chance but honestly the majority of GW players are morons. I tried a few missions for Elona in HM but I found out that it's much easier with H/H since they listen to what you say and bring somewhat decent skillbars

Other day I tried to join a PUG for Selvetarm but all the idiots there were telling me to go Obsidian Tank, I argued back and forth but the majority there (whose skill bars sucked anyway) and then just thought 'screw this, I'm better off with my heroes and henchies) and just left and completed the dungeons with heroes and henchies.

Zahr Dalsk · Oct 25, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

I know WoW isn't 100% original, but at least it doesn't blatantly steal other game's functionalities to the very detail.

True, that. It doesn't steal functionality, it steals setting and background lore

On PUGs... I'd help them in low-level areas, particularly new players in Shing Jea Monastery and would help not-that-capable alliance members in most areas, but in a difficult place such as Underworld I'd only settle for guild members.

bungusmaximus · Oct 25, 2007, 06:30 AM // 06:30

I PUG elite areas and missions when I happen to be around when someone needs help. I just like to do missions that I already have just because I'm bored, in that case there's usually 4 spots open for people that have trouble making it through. When I got my own hero setup I can even add a blind puppy and still get masters reward so why not :P

the_jos · Oct 25, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Yes, I still PUG.
However, only normal mode storyline or the easy HM missions.

The elite areas, harder HM missions and vanquish are no-pug for me.
However, I don't mind taking a 'random stranger' in a team with several guildies/friends for those things.
Just not in a role that is vital.

Looking at failure, it's 90% because of bad play and 10% bad skills in Normal Mode.
That's why I observe the party leader a lot when I join a PUG.
How does he handle the 'gogogogogogo' type of players.
What kind of people does he invite and does the team look like it could make it.

In Hard Mode, things are somewhat different.
People are judged based on their skillbar.
That's not because I want a cookie cutter build all the time.
However, when someone has a cookie cutter build, I'm sure he can play it or learn to play it fast. He most probably will not be a total burden to the team.
If someone has a different build and explains why he runs it, it shows knowledge of the area/game, which is worth more than a cookie cutter build.

When I join a Hard Mode PUG in an easy area, I look more for skill and how people lead and follow. And how they behave in general.
This determines whether or not I keep in contact with them for other Hard Mode stuff.

upier · Oct 25, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

short answer: yes
long answer: no

This is officially one of the best posts I have ever read!
Basically what he said.

arcady · Oct 25, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Saying, however, "this is what enjoyment is" is not too good. If it was unintentional to say such, then np.

It was intentional.

I see no logical reason why I should couch what I say in a manner to pre-predict your particular preferences rather than my own.

That said, sure, we have different opinions. But don't correct the way I state mine.

cellardweller · Oct 25, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Pve is easy enough that even with the most fundamentally flawed (or even empty) skillbar, the party will succeed most of the time so I've never had a problem with sub par players. The reason I stopped pugging after the first time through prophesies was simply because the number of redengines in the general gw population reached critical mass.

Bryant Again · Oct 25, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Pve is easy enough that even with the most fundamentally flawed (or even empty) skillbar, the party will succeed most of the time so I've never had a problem with sub par players.

This is where it's hard to draw the line in terms of "suckiness", and what it takes to be good at Guild Wars. Is it known what you will encounter that will help you prevail, regardless of build? Is it strictly the build itself that determines the outcome? Most of the time I consider it to be the latter, but there have been occassions where I've proved myself wrong (like when we got Masters on Nundu Bay with no monks and a level 6 Melonni.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

But don't correct the way I state mine.

Uh I will if it's incorrect. You're saying "this is what enjoyment is". Quite obviously, not everyone considers that enjoyment. So if you're going to consider that a broad statement that can be applied to everyone, you're wrong.